News just in: RTD has balls; Ianto gone for good

[filthgoblin]

terraswrath just sent me a link to this interview with RTD about the outcry over Ianto's death in Torchwood.

Can I just say upfront that the following article and my own thoughts might contain views that are marginal and controversial in this fandom? KTHX. However it seems that I'm backed up by the big man in this instance. And he is big. Believe me. I've sat next to him ;)

I have been calmly and politely standing my ground against some fans who are raging that the death of Iantos shows Torchwood to be "heteronormative". In my gut I didn't believe this to be true, but I don't like to go off half-cocked on something so I went off and did some research and this only reinforced my view. Rhys and Gwen are a heterosexual couple. They were behaving in what one could consider a normal way in spite of, one could strongly argue, very abnormal circumstances. But that doesn't make the show heteronormative. The term has been used to suggest that RTD never gives a gay couple [read: Jack/Ianto] a happy ending, but apart from Gwen and Rhys he hasn't given ANY couple a happy ending. No-one generally comes off well in a Torchwood relationship, but given the number of same-gender canon pairings in the show and the way those have been portrayed I don't think it could be argued that non-heterosexual lifestyles are given a marginal viewpoint or that there is any suggestion anywhere that they are considered to be less valid. Folks seemed more surprised that Tosh got it on with another human being than the fact that she got it on with Mary specifically. No-one batted an eyelid at the fact that Jack and Capt. John were so clearly lovers. The throw-away lines from Gwen in Day 1 that she expects Jack and Ianto to be together, wherever they are, makes me think that their relationship was very much accepted as the norm at the Hub. Furthermore, the series has certainly left its fair share of heterosexual pairings in its wake - Gwen and Owen, Owen and Suzie, Owen and Diane, Tosh and Tommy, Ianto and Lisa.

Those who stand by the heteronormative argument and have discussed this with me have asserted their view that when you total up the bodycount at the end of the seasons to date, the fact that the only remaining relationship is Gwen and Rhys [effectively making it "Straights 1 : Gays 0"] means that the show IS heteronormative. However, I honestly don't see a huge bias favouring opposite sex attraction when looking at all the relationships in the round and I think that boiling the normative nature of a show that's spanned three series down to a straightforward head-count at the end of one story arc seems a little simplistic in the context of a show full of pretty complex relationships.

I don't personally understand the attraction of Ianto as a character, but I do understand his fans are hurting and feel the show has let them down in some way, leaving them them grieving for someone they had cared about deeply. But I'm annoyed that some are choosing to use what I considered to be flawed sociological reasoning to get angry about this rather than accepting that joy and tragedy both form part of well-executed drama and congratulating the writers for doing such a good job of getting them so invested. The fact that the bodycount totalled one fewer straight couple in the context of the whole series does not make the whole show heteronormative. Also, as a side issue, I'm horrified by the number of people who seem to sneer at Gwen for getting the happy ending and seem to want her to suffer in some way in order to even the score. Being homo-positive but a raving misogynist is okay to some, apparently.

I know I'm on the losing side of this argument due to sheer numbers. I just wanted to get that out of my system. And now I've gotten it off my chest, I'd better get back to work.

Comments

[sweetsyren.livejournal.com]

I don't get their argument at all. Torchwood peeps baffle me anyway.

I loved Ianto and I was SAD when he died but theres a part of me that thinks the show was better for it. I thought it was honest and genuine and right that he should die. I'm glad they didn't retcon it. I'm glad again that they had the balls to do it in the first place. Sure it was hard to watch and made me cry like a little girl but it was brave and I won't lambast the writer/s for that. RTD did what he thought was right for the characters and the show in general. Whether that is proven out in the long run remains to be seen, but as it stands now, i'm glad he did it.

TW fandom has the most skewed perspectives sometimes. I'm glad I don't actively participate there cos i'm sure I wouldn't last long. I like Gwen and am glad she got a happy ending and I think what Jack did was right and i'm glad he ran because it was honest. <---- That little thing right there would have just signed my Request for Flaming.

Also in the article I spotted this:

Question: But it's a risky thing to kill off such a popular character.
DAVIES: Absolutely. There’s a risk that some people won’t come back to watch now that Ianto’s gone. I thank them for watching the show and I recommend they go watch Supernatural, because those boys are beautiful. And don’t tell me they’re brothers. [Laughs] Not in my mind.

RTD SHIPS WINCEST! I'm dead from laff.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

Honey, trust me when I tell you that the best place to be is a million miles away from the majority of this fandom. It's fine to dislike a character in a show, and I've disliked many in different series, but how far some people take Gwen hating just makes me shudder. The community antigwenallies has as its description an invite to "all those who hate the Torchwood 'ho". Um, what? If there were to be someone labelled as a 'ho in that series, wouldn't it be the not-at-all monogamous, strictly polyamorous Jack and not Gwen? The level of misogyny demonstrated by some in the fandom is quite chilling.

I agree with you that CoE was honest. I also think it was good writing precisely because it has provoked such emotions amongst the fans. And I also laughed very hard at some parts of the article, particularly the bit about the fandom wank about homosexuality being like children picking up building blocks and waving them around in the air because they don't know what to do with them. But yes, the fact that he ships Wincest in SPN [even though I've never watched it] is win :D

[sweetsyren.livejournal.com]

That fandom has a serious lack of perspective. The whole Jack making eyes at Gwen...what does that make Jack? The subject of a "ho"'s interferance into Jack/Ianto's tru luff omg? I don't think so. If they're going to tar and feather people then at least realise that theres more than one person that could apply for the position of sticky and fluffy.

Lol that bit made me giggle too. I may hate Rusty with a passion for what he did to Donna but I love him as a writer that makes no apologies for his artistic vision. That's a good thing. He should never apologise for something just because a couple of fans get on their loud hailers.