Two things I learned today and one thing I already knew

[filthgoblin]

I already knew it was the perfectly adorable minlliw's birthday. She assures me she's had a nice day and a lovely weekend, which is no more than she deserves. She and I will be meeting for a date next week, when I will be spoiling her in some way or another. If you're reading this, happy birthday my sweet. All the birthday love in the world to you *smooches*

In addition to what I already knew, I have learned the following things:

• Work-based internet privileges are capricious and fleeting. One minute I was posting a lunchtime rant about the absence of The Brain from my work life, the next thing I know LJ is blocked at a server level by the work system. No more lunchtime browsing of my SFW list. Or daytime venting of my frustrations to my journal's ever-listening ear. Oh well *sighs*
• I have a sexual squick that's greater than the one I thought was my biggest one ever. Not something I've tried, but something I read today. It squicked me out more violently than I thought possible for anything. I was almost physically sick, and ended up in tears. It's not even anything that's all that extreme in the grand scheme of things. I can deal with all sorts of violence, blood, even watersports even though it's not my thing. I've watched most of "2 girls, 1 cup", FFS! But just a few short [well-written - it wasn't the writer's fault] paragraphs had me quaking and queasy. It made me ponder on the broad church of human sexuality and how we're all so different. I'm sure there's stuff that I enjoy seeing or reading about, or even doing, that would turn others right off. I think I was just surprised at the strength of my reaction, and I learned something about myself.

The only other thing I know for sure is that my headache of Friday was just in remission rather than actually gone, so I'm eating a fistful of pills and going to get some sleep.

Comments

[rustledust.livejournal.com]

And now we're all so very curious as to what it was you read!

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

And I wasn't even trying to be mysterious or anything! It was more the reaction it provoked and the thought process it led me down I found interesting. But it was sounding (http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Sounding) that got me so queasy. So much so that I just copied the link for that without opening the page again. There's not anything at all graphic on the page, just pics of the sounds themselves and a matter-of-fact description of what it involves, but I started to feel iffy reading through that as a precursor to a graphic description of sounding in a sexual context and that was when I flipped out.

Like I say, not exactly the most extreme of kinks but something about it made me react very badly. Even more badly than what I've always considered to be my biggest squick which is asphyxiation and I have actual personal experience of that. Non-consensual experience, so I guess it's understandable that I would find that icky.

[perdiccas.livejournal.com]

I agree with above... don't leave us hanging!

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I wasn't even trying to be mysterious! Huh. It was the reaction it provoked and the thought process it led me down I found interesting. But if ya really want to know... it was sounding (http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Sounding) that got me so queasy. So much so that I just copied thatlink without opening the page again. There's not anything at all graphic on the page, just pics of the sounds themselves and a matter-of-fact description of what it involves, but I started to feel iffy reading through that as a precursor to a short fic on the Trek RPF Kink Meme (http://community.livejournal.com/trek_rpf_kink/1765.html?thread=2838245) that was when I flipped out.

Like I say, not the most extreme of kinks but something about it made me react very badly. Even more badly than what I've always considered to be my biggest squick which is asphyxiation and I have actual personal experience of that. Non-consensual experience, so I guess it's understandable that I would find that icky.

Which is why I say human sexuality is fascinating. I'm extremely open-minded and count things that are totally taboo and no-go amongst my kinks of choice. The person sent me the link because she thought the fic was really hot. For as much of it as I read, I could see it was well-written, but I couldn't finish reading it and I actually ran and sat in front of the toilet for a few minutes, convinced I was going to vomit. WTF, self?

[perdiccas.livejournal.com]

I agree the reaction is the interesting part, I'm just a) nosey and b) it's easier to think about with context (I'm not sure why, because as you say, the kink itself is kind of irrelevant in this situation, but it just is. For my brain at least).

Weirdly enough, I've actually read that fic. ::I REALLY HOPE THIS PART ONWARDS DOESN'T SQUICK YOU:: And I went into it thinking I would be squicked, because watersports is kind of borderline for me, so I'm leery of most anything relating the urethra but I found the sounding itself didn't bug me, it was that it happened without any forewarning (ie. Chris didn't tell Zach he was gonna do it before he did). I'm almost envious of a relationship that has that kind of trust, but it's so far out of what I personally would be comfortable with in a relationship that it really set my teeth on edge (if my partner wants try something new and kinky, that's cool but we need to discuss first). ::END POTENTIALLY SQUICKY BIT::

But yeah, I'm sorry you had such an extreme reaction. *hugs* (Um... that should have been in my original comment. Sorry!)

The more I read, the more surprised I am at where my own personal fic limits lie and how they're different/similar to where my RL limits lie. I'm also constantly surprised that stuff, if you'd asked me a year or two if I was interested in it, I'd have said thanks but no thanks, it turns out I'm actually okay with or actively into. I've never had such a visceral reaction to a fic but I have encountered kinks in the past that have weighed on my mind for days after I read the fic, leaving me with a kind of lingering anxiety/uncomfortable feeling.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I'm not squicked by your comment, don't worry. I think it's the description of the actual act that made me freak. But I hear what you're saying about that degree of trust in a relationship and the fact that Zach had no idea what was coming was somewhat overwhelming. I actually sort of enjoyed part one with a knot in my stomach knowing what was coming up to that point. I only just about managed to make it through two sentences of part two before I had to close the window and run away. I agree that kind of trust is enviable in some way, and Chris's "you know the safe word, don't let me hurt you" is actually quite hot/sweet. But that said, it's not just about pain. It's also about pushing personal boundaries and whilst something might not necessarily be painful it might still be too much.

Watersports don't squick me, but I wouldn't seek it out because I just don't get it. That's another part of my whole rumination on the wide variety of things that make people hot and sticky or not and squicky. You can't rationalise it. I can't explain anything about the kinks that I love or exactly why this one made me react with such visceral disgust. I also struggle inwardly with one of my recently new-found kinks which I should find wrong, wrong, wrong but I can't help the fact that it makes me hot as all hell. I've been caught in a cycle of beating myself up about getting the horn thinking about it when it shouldn't have that effect on me, then bashing out exceptionally hot fic on the subject that I haven't been able to bring myself to post on my journal.

Humans, eh? We're a conflicted, complicated mess of inexplicable emotion, no?

[perdiccas.livejournal.com]

I think I'm in pretty much the same boat with watersports. It's odd for me because before I'd read it/seen porn with it, I'd assumed that it would squick me something awful. But it actually doesn't, it's just kind of provokes nothing in me good or bad... Whereas I've found that my squick for anything foot related is so great that I can't even just skip ahead in a fic that has toe sucking etc, just knowing that it's there is enough for me to not be able to read the fic. *shrugs* Our minds are odd places.

I also struggle inwardly with one of my recently new-found kinks which I should find wrong, wrong, wrong but I can't help the fact that it makes me hot as all hell.
I was in this *exact* same situation when I realised that kind of have an enema kink. It's not at all something I'd thought about but after seeing it once, I could not get it out of my mind. I was quite apprehensive about how into it I was, but I have the most amazingly supportive flist and they were really great and open minded when I wrote a fic featuring an enema.

It was somewhat silly of me to worry, because I know how great my flist is and I didn't seriously think they'd ever look down on me for liking something a bit out there and yet there was still this anxiety over the kink. I think, for me, it was as much me coming to terms with the fact that I was into something I hadn't expected to be than it was worrying what others might think (I just focussed on the "what others might think" part to deal). For comparison, I've never been shy about enjoying reading and writing bloodplay and I've never felt self conscious about it but by the same token, a fascination with blood and cutting has been part of me for as long as I can remember.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

It's odd for me because before I'd read it/seen porn with it, I'd assumed it would squick me something awful. Yeah, me too. But it doesn't. It just leaves me kinda cold. As do feet. I don't really want to read fics or see videos with people getting their feet licked or toes sucked, but just because the thought of it bores me rather than anything else. But there's enough in this big wide world of the internets to be picky, and skipping over the fic that isn't going to do good things for you is no crime.

I have a major thing for cutting and bloodplay. Vampires float my boat in so, so many ways I can't even count, and knifeplay gives me shivers. I've read it in a number of contexts including RPF and it's hot as hell. It also only took one fleeting moment of Sylar taking the tip of a blade to Danko's lip and nicking it enough for blood to bead there for me to swoon. In fact, in the midst of writing a full-on cutting, beating, dubcon-fest of a fic [with added asphyxiation, because I wanted to confront that particular squick and found that having examined it I don't get as freaked out by writing it as I thought I would - I just Do Not Want in real life and don't understand why anyone would *shrugs*]. But my recent bout of self-examination, and I might even go so far as to say self-castigation, has been brought about due to my current OTP being pair of real life [famous, I don't know them or anything!] brothers. I've tried telling myself time and again that it's wrong, but I just can't help myself. The thought of them together makes me uncomfortably hot and no amount of telling myself it's wrong to ship two actual people who are really, actually related to each other makes my autonomic response any different. Just a bit more guilt-ridden.

If I weren't an unchristened heathen and confirmed atheist, I'd swear I was Catholic sometimes. The Catholic guilt is strong with this one!

[perdiccas.livejournal.com]

Is it the RPS or the incest that's causing the self-castigation, or the combo of the two? Incest to me is foot fetishes to you, it's there and I don't mind it but it doesn't add anything to fic for me (when I read about hot brothers getting it on, it's hot for me because guy 1 and guy 2 are hot, not because guy 1 and guy 2 are brothers) but that isn't to say that I think it's something you should be ashamed of. A lot of people have an incest kink -- Peter/Nathan wouldn't be half as popular as it is if people didn't.

I'm kind of in the minority re:RPS in that I've never really seen it as distinct from any other kind of fanfic. We don't know anything *real* about the actors or musicians or sports stars or whomever, we just know the character they present to the public, so it's never seemed intrusive or otherwise uncomfortable making for me that people write RPS. But I know that a lot of people don't share that attitude so I can certainly sympathise if it's something that you're leery of.

While obviously my opinion is worth roughly the paper it's printed on, you really, honestly, truly have no cause to feel bad about being into it. I totally encourage you to read and post because any fic that gets you hot while you're writing it is bound to get people hot while they're reading it, and the world totally needs more fic that gets people hot! :) *hugs*

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I don't really know whether it's the RPS or the incest. It might be the combination of the two, I guess, but I honestly don't know. I'm right there with you in the minority in terms of my view on RPF. I've probably written more RPF than anything else, for more pairings than I care to count, and it's really the same for me. As far as I'm concerned, the RPF pairings I'm into are just constructs of my own imagination that look like real people. I find out details about their lives because accuracy about that is as important to me as accuracy in fictional canon. But RPS per se does not freak me out at all.

Incest in general probably makes me react the same way as you. It neither turns me on or off a fic. It's irrelevant if the guys in question are hot. And this is probably why I don't read Petrellicest, because both Peter/Milo and Nathan/Adrian turn me off completely.

So I can't really explain why I feel so guilty about this particular pairing. Except possibly that I admire one of the brothers more than I've admired any other actor and been attracted to him more than any other famous man possibly in my entire life and I feel sort of disrespectful. And for the record? Your comment on your own post about the pairing? I don't know if you were being intuitive or just using a f'rinstance but you were on the button.

I have posted the fic I've written, just not in my journal. I'm utterly conflicted because I think it's some of the hottest stuff I've ever written, but I feel too ashamed of myself to bring it into my own journal :/

[coneyislandbaby]

It really must say something about me that the squickiest thing in that post is... the mention of Danko. I just find him completely unappealing on both a character and a physical level (I'm sure the actor's a lovely person, of course, even if my distaste actually stems from a different role). But the whole dubcon/cutting/etc? I'm all over that. ;)

Interestingly enough, Quincest has sort of bypassed one of my squicks (particularly as it's arguable in this case, I think if it weren't I wouldn't be able to do it). My biggest squick in RPF is a non-famous partner used as just another fictional character. I'm completely and utterly fine with actors who have had three lines of dialogue in a CSI episode, but if they're not an actor/other celebrity, it tends to make me go no... my particular squick is Scott Gill, John Barrowman's partner, but he's by no means the only one I've seen and not read/clicked (sometimes I've clicked without knowing there was a non celebrity partner involved). And Joe is barely on the side of OK for me - if he hadn't been in the movie and if he were anything else in his day to day life than a photographer (I'm flexible on photographers also being celebrities of a sort) I would be profoundly squicked rather than writing an RPS collaboration that has Quincest and Milo/Adrian as well as Milo/Zach and Adrian/Joe in it.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

If you find Danko unappealing, you will probably not want to read the next fic I post...

It's weird the things that trigger our squicks. I have never read famous person/non-famous partner fic because, IDK, it's not slash for me. Slash is about unresolved tension and the chemistry between a person and their real life partner is genuine and fulfilled. Imagining them fucking is just feels a bit... voyeuristic? Unnecessary?

I think that Joe probably counts as minor celebrity because he's a photographer, moves in the same circles and he and Zach have worked together. But even that doesn't make me angst over it. I honestly don't know what it is that makes me so ashamed to own to my love of the Brow Brothers. Nor do I truly know what sparks the basis of my squicks or my kinks. I think it's probably all buried so deeply in my psyche that I'd have to get up to my elbows in brains in order to get to it!

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

Me three.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I didn't even think people would be that interested in what it was! I was just fascinated by my own reaction and the thought track it led me down about the diversity of human sexuality. But the conversation we had the other night definitely holds true on this one. YKINMK, even though I fully respect it and your ability to go forth and indulge it leisure. Even though it may not be your own personal kink. You know what I mean.

It was sounding (http://wiki.bmezine.com/index.php/Sounding) that got me so queasy. So much so that I just copied that link without opening the page again. There's not anything at all graphic on the page, just pics of the sounds themselves and a matter-of-fact description of what it involves, but I started to feel iffy reading through that as background for a short fic on the Trek RPF Kink Meme (http://community.livejournal.com/trek_rpf_kink/1765.html?thread=2838245). It was mid-way through reading that when I flipped out.

Like I say, not the most extreme of kinks but something about it made me react very badly. Even more badly than what I've always considered to be my biggest squick, which is asphyxiation.

Which is why I say human sexuality is fascinating. I'm extremely open-minded and count things that are totally taboo and no-go amongst my kinks of choice. The person sent me the link because she thought the fic was really hot. For as much of it as I read, I could see it was well-written, but I couldn't finish reading it and I actually ran and sat in front of the toilet for a few minutes, convinced I was going to vomit. I've never reacted that strongly to anything I've read before, either in a good or a bad way. Once I stopped freaking out about it, I found my reaction interesting.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

I think I've read one sounding fic and I'm assuming it was House/Chase...although I may have been exposed to a J/I sounding fic and blotted it out...or even Owen/Ianto...It's not squicky per se...well kind of, mostly for the risk factor. As some of the other commenters have mentioned, the biggest issue would be the trust and whether it's being done in a completely consensual way or not.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I get that. I understand there's an issue with trust, but it's not even that for me. It's the actual, physical act and its description. Don't ask me why. I don't fully understand.

[karaokegal.livejournal.com]

No. I totally get it. That's one of those things that makes me very glad I don't have the organ in question.

[sweetsyren.livejournal.com]

*sends good sleeping/headache banishing vibes*

I don't dare ask what the sex squick thing was. I'm fairly certain if it squicked you to that extent it'll squick me a load worse.

I hope the headache and the icky feeling goes away.

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

Other comment responses say what the kink was if you do want to know, but I don't think it even matters. It just made me ponder on the diverse range if things that get people off and taught me something about my limits that I didn't know before.

[xanium.livejournal.com]

Ohhh I read that fic. Didn't get too far...

Work-based internet privileges are capricious and fleeting.
Word. When i first started, I went on LJ without removing the slash comms from my flist...got blocked pretty fast. But they unblocked it recently and I've since got rid of the slash comms so it's all good, but I can't post comments or entries. IT are so picky...

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I'll have another look in a couple of weeks time. After a bar on Photobucket, that's now been lifted so who knows? I figured it had flown under their radar before because it's not popular but maybe I've turned it into a one-woman hit-storm :p

[rustledust.livejournal.com]

Aha - I see! I don't need to click the link as having been a BME reader for the last 13 years (ye gads!) I'm well aware of what sounding is. I can understand why you were squicked though, it's certainly not for me and it is actually fairly risky play - the potential to go too deep and/or introduce bacteria into places it wouldn't ordinarily find really does not appeal to me!

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

I'm a relative newcomer to BME, but I've read all kinds of stuff including castration, extreme piercings and body modding that hasn't made me feel queasy like that. I have no problem with the fact that anyone wants to get involved in any kind of risky play as long as everyone's fully informed of those risks, consents to them and plays safely within their own limits. I guess it was just the strength of my reaction that surprised me. Meh, not for me is one thing. OMG *vomit* is quite another!

[minlliw.livejournal.com]

To change topic completely, thanks for the birthday wishes.
I hope that part of my future spoiling will include many smooches!
And an in-depth discussion about all of the above!!
Lovesya and your kinks muchly
xxxxx

[filthgoblin.livejournal.com]

You bet your sweet cheeks, darlin'. Looking forward to laying hands [and lips] on you very soon xxx